DUST Search - REs are OP

Ryme Intrinseca wrote:

REs actually are OP, for three reasons.

1. MAP GLITCHES. I always search objectives before the hack. I find REs sometimes but occasionally they get through and I get blown up. The problem is that they have unreasonably low visibility. Some moods make it too dark to see them, and some objectives have hidden pockets. So it is not always hackers being too stupid to look when they get blown up by these, it is RE users exploiting glitchy maps. REs need to be readily apparent to infantry within 5 metres.

2. SHORT TIME BEFORE PRIME. Some RE users throw these things at your feet like a grenade. You know it's coming, but they blow it before you can get out of the way. This is obviously not how they are intended to be used. The time it takes to prime them needs to be extended, so they can only be used in their intended role.

3. EXTRA GRENADE SLOT. REs are the only item of equipment that directly gets kills for the user. As such they are contrary to the intended support role of equipment. RE users effectively pad their KDR by using an equipment slot as an extra grenade slot. I suggest that CCP make REs only equipable in a grenade slot rather than an equipment slot, to reflect their actual battlefield use. There could be a separate 'demolition charge' item of equipment, which can only be manually stuck to an installation or vehicle for 5000> damage.

Inb4 QQ.


Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Yun Hee Ryeon Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn 215	Posted - 2013.09.02 05:35:00 - [1] - Quote ladwar wrote: CLONE117 wrote: for the last time re r not op!.... (looks at at other posts).. oh wait we all ready have ppl defending re? ok nvm bye bye... even i am defending REs.. come and stay awhile and tell your funny stories. I'm actually sort of worried about the incoming armor buff, ladwar. You know Xin can already tank an RE blast as a proto heavy? It knocks him down to something like 20 armor, but he can do it. With the armor buff, I suspect that will no longer be rare. On the subject of RE shenanigans, there's nothing more embarrassing than getting detonated by your own RE trap ... especially when you're the one who pushed the button. This happens to me more often than I would like. Funny thing is, more than half the time I see it coming before I even push the button, but push it anyway. It's like the realization isn't enough to countermand the action order that's already been sent. God, brains are weird.
Yun Hee Ryeon Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn 216	Posted - 2013.09.02 14:34:00 - [2] - Quote ladwar wrote: RE do not damage installations at all Untrue. You can reliably blow up large turret installations. It takes three explosives and they all have to "hit," however. Killing CRU's and the like takes a good bit more work.
Yun Hee Ryeon Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn 216	Posted - 2013.09.02 14:43:00 - [3] - Quote ladwar wrote: Yun Hee Ryeon wrote: ladwar wrote: RE do not damage installations at all Untrue. You can reliably blow up large turret installations. It takes three explosives and they all have to "hit," however. Killing CRU's and the like takes a good bit more work. do they have to be red just like for the swarm launcher because i have tried and no dice on any damage on yellow installations or red supply depots. They can be yellow or red. It's possible that you ran into the null-damage bug that causes installations to take no damage if ground cover blocks any little bit of the blast. It's a hit box issue, as I understand it. Edit: Also, the supply depot has a load of HP.
Yun Hee Ryeon Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn 216	Posted - 2013.09.02 14:47:00 - [4] - Quote 'Course, I suppose it's also possible that they (for some reason) made facilities indestructible by RE in the last month and I just haven't noticed because I tend not to use them for that.
Yun Hee Ryeon Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn 219	Posted - 2013.09.02 16:09:00 - [5] - Quote In fairness, the RE is lovely against tanks. It's not that it reliably destroys them, it's that several going off at once is reliably a shocking amount of damage. The tank driver who thought he was going to be able to sit comfortably for another few swarm volleys abruptly finds himself fleeing too late, shields dropping, AV grenades raining down, and doom inevitable. They're not instant death to a high-grade tank, but I'm not entirely sure that they need to be. They take the fight from moderately challenging to desperate with the push of a button.
Yun Hee Ryeon Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn 219	Posted - 2013.09.03 00:30:00 - [6] - Quote Ryme Intrinseca wrote: REs actually are OP, for three reasons. 1. MAP GLITCHES. I always search objectives before the hack. I find REs sometimes but occasionally they get through and I get blown up. The problem is that they have unreasonably low visibility. Some moods make it too dark to see them, and some objectives have hidden pockets. So it is not always hackers being too stupid to look when they get blown up by these, it is RE users exploiting glitchy maps. REs need to be readily apparent to infantry within 5 metres. 2. SHORT TIME BEFORE PRIME. Some RE users throw these things at your feet like a grenade. You know it's coming, but they blow it before you can get out of the way. This is obviously not how they are intended to be used. The time it takes to prime them needs to be extended, so they can only be used in their intended role. 3. EXTRA GRENADE SLOT. REs are the only item of equipment that directly gets kills for the user. As such they are contrary to the intended support role of equipment. RE users effectively pad their KDR by using an equipment slot as an extra grenade slot. I suggest that CCP make REs only equipable in a grenade slot rather than an equipment slot, to reflect their actual battlefield use. There could be a separate 'demolition charge' item of equipment, which can only be manually stuck to an installation or vehicle for 5000> damage. Inb4 QQ. Less QQ. More LOL. There's one of these that you just about have a point on: the first. There are places where the map isn't quite as solid as it looks, yes. However, here's the thing: you can't hide them completely anymore. Used to be they'd sink out of sight; now they just sink to half their depth. Also, the little bastards have lights on them that glow. Before you assume that the things are functionally invisible, (1) check your surroundings thoroughly, looking for lights that are out of place. They're little and yellow-- but not so little as to be unnoticeable; (2) don't just look behind the objective; the blast radius is currently (I think) four meters, and people have gotten sufficiently used to checking for them that we've started putting them in other places; (3) as of tomorrow, when 1.4 goes in, try using an active scanner-- it should theoretically reveal their locations. If you just can't find them, try hucking a warp grenade at the objective. That's pretty reliable. Your other two points are ... well, how to put it? Try using them and see what you think. It takes an advanced RE to get the arming time down to two seconds from five. Heavies waddle fast enough to get clear, as a rule, if they realize what's going on. The throw distance is also pretty short; if I'm trying to plant a remote on you, I'm virtually picking your pocket. The primary touchstone for something OP in this game is that it becomes ubiquitous. Remotes aren't, and they're about to take a minor whack with the nerf bat (active scanners). Give remotes a go, and see if you still think that it's overpowered; otherwise, you're speaking as the victim, which, you must admit, makes your ability to judge fairly a little suspect.
Yun Hee Ryeon Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn 230	Posted - 2013.09.03 15:24:00 - [7] - Quote Ryme Intrinseca wrote: +1 for you even though you LOLed at me Points for being a good sport. (In fairness, predicting tears isn't wholly polite, either, though.) Quote: I'm a heavy which is why I haven't used REs. I'll have a go on an alt tho. Another thing I don't like about REs is that they specifically target the few people who play the game right, i.e. hack objectives in public skirmish and domination. 90% of RE kills must be at objectives. Why can't we get weapons that specifically target redline snipers, tower forgegunners, or LLAV roadkillers? That doesn't make REs OP, but it does mean they help to make pubs that bit less playable for those who like to play for the objectives rather than get cheap kills. Hm. Yeah, admittedly, I probably get most of my kills from luckless redberries who don't know what to look for or how-- though I also get them from vets who are in too much of a rush to slow down and smell (around for) the little box of shrapnel. I don't think of RE use at objectives as a "cheap" kill. Running people over in an LLAV is a cheap kill. Planting explosives and keeping them active is a lot of hard work, because, if I trigger one, I lose all the ones I currently have planted; they all go up at once. I end up doing a lot of running around with my poorly-shielded butt in the line of fire in order to keep objectives defended, and one hacker means I have to do it all again-- whether the explosive did the job or not. It doesn't take a careful hacker to destroy them, either. Random grenades, mass drivers-- anything that catches the remote in the area of effect, really-- will cook it off. When I hit the button (beep!), my entire surviving array goes up, fruitlessly, unless I get lucky and there's somebody standing in range of one of the others.. (I'd love to see proto explosives that we could trigger one at a time.) You seem like a fair-minded guy. So ... look. You have your approach to the game, which seems to be more or less direct and up-front. You're here for a good, straight fight: who shows the better battlefield tactics, who's got the better aim, and so on. Skill versus skill, sportsman-like. I may be making that sound a little naiive, but that's more or less the upshot, true? I'm a dedicated scout, which means I'm playing an entirely different game. Spending any significant period of time in somebody's crosshairs gets me shredded to a fine mist. Consequently, I'm a vicious little bastard who hates straight fights and makes most kills from ambush. Playing fair isn't the way I succeed at the game; for me, the game is one of trickery and stealth. "Cheap" kills are normally the only ones I get because 90% of my defenses consist of my wits. Hell, I recently promoted my nova knives to my light weapon slot. (The other is an SMG for flanking and emergency use.) There aren't many of us around anymore. Those who survive mostly do so because we fight dirty. The ability to do so is precious to us, and 1.4 is introducing further quiet nerfs to our play style: in addition to the active scanner buff, better auto-aim isn't good if you depend on agility to get through a firefight. It's fair enough to resent being sucker-punched, but understand that what is sucker punching you when you run afoul of an RE trap is typically the opposite of an LLAV murder taxi. We're mortal (hell, we're downright fragile), and most of us die an awful, awful lot. And, incidentally, we're usually the vanguard of those who are, as you say, playing for the objectives. Scouts are prolific hackers, and we're the most likely to drop in at an objective without fighting a battle (with lots of RE-cooking-off explosions), first. In other words, we're among those most commonly killed by remote explosives. We get kind of good at looking for them, as a result ... and then we leave our own when we go. At this point, arguing for taking away our tools seems pretty indistinguishable from arguing for the extinction of the role. I know that's not what you're saying, but sucker-punches are pretty much what we do, whether with RE, with a shotgun, or with the point of a knife. Take that away, and you've got us running assault suits.